THE RIGHTS of embryos, the merits or otherwise of Damien Hirst's conceptual art and what Hitler might have done with genetic engineering -- not what's usually discussed over a brew in the sixth form common room.

But then again, the Debating Matters competition which dropped in on East Lancashire yesterday for the North West regional heat wasn't a forum for woolly-minded arguments and easy rhetoric.

Instead, this national competition aspires to find the great arguers of the next generation -- the politicians, lawyers and philosophers -- and pit them against each other.

Locking intellectual horns at Towneley Hall, Burnley, were 16 students from three East Lancashire schools, Blackburn's Queen Elizabeth's Grammar School and St Mary's College and Clitheroe Royal Grammar School, plus Winstanley College, from Wigan.

Part sponsored by Castle Cement in Clitheroe, yesterday's event was the North West heat of a national competition organised by the Institute of Ideas to promote independent thought and debating skills among Britain's young people.

Separated into two streams, the four schools pitted teams of two students against each other to cover a range of arguments from reducing pollution, to banning human genetic engineering and introducing a victim-centered criminal justice system.

The winners of each stream went head-to-head in a tense final about whether conceptual art was real art or not -- a debate which was won by Winstanley College after judges decided they had pipped QUEGS at the post. The Wigan college will go onto a national final in July.

Despite losing out East Lancashire students delivered several rapier-like thrusts of logic that impressed the panels of judges, made up of eminent scientists, artists, philosophers and captains of industry.

James Bruce of Clitheroe Grammar set the tone during the debate with QUEGS over human genetic engineering. He told the audience: "Technology used to clone human embryos will give the new Hitlers of this world the chance to further their master-race arguments.

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His debating partner Anna Tunnard added: "Advocating human genetic engineering is like opening up a bomb and deciding which wire to cut, but you don't know how the bomb works."

Emma Cave, of QUEGS, countered with: "If we have the chance to eradicate certain diseases through this technology then we should take it. If we had always ignored new and controversial technology thenwe'd still be swinging through the trees as monkeys."

Tony Gilland, Debating Matters co-ordinator for the Institute of Ideas, said: "The debate on genetic engineering was particularly excellent because it inspired quite a passionate response from the audience and that's what it's all about."

Gareth Price, general manager at sponsors Castle Cement, was a judge. He said: "It's been a privilege to enjoy such a high quality of debate on very difficult subjects."

l Judges awarded individual awards to the following East Lancashire students: James Bruce and Anna Tunnard from Clitheroe Grammar, who received honorary mentions, while Rhionnan Garth-Jones from St Hilda's, Burnley, and Danny Griffiths from St Mary's were highly commended for their contributions from the audience.

Students taking part in the debates were:

CLITHEROE: Anna Tunnard, Daniel Heap, James Bruce, Marc Bailey.

QUEGS: James St John, Liam McArdle, Emma Cave, Craig Jackson.

ST MARY'S: Matt Mugan, Oliver Nguyen, Danny Griffiths, Paul Dwyer.