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The way forward?
INDEPENDENT shops, arts and housing will be an exciting transformation' for the face of city centre Lancaster.
So says Cllr Jim Blakely - and it is time to put a stop to criticising plans to redevelop the Canal Corridor North site.
His outburst comes a week after Centros Miller issued a revised blueprint for the key city area.
But the scheme was roundly condemned by the It's Our City campaign group, as reported in last week's Citizen
He says the proposal which has 20 per cent more houses than the original and includes shops such as Debenhams and an 800-space car park has won praise from many quarters.
Labour Cllr Blakely (pictured) says: "The developer has listened during the consultation period and has made substantial changes to the application.
"This mixed-use site would be a very exciting transformation for the area with independent shops, arts, open-space and housing. With extra investment for the Grand, Dukes and the musician's co-op this is a super opportunity to move the whole district forward."
He says the Green Party and protestors should remember that this is the real world', and adds: "We need investment to take this area forward and it's clear that if the Canal Corridor application is rej-ected then nothing will happen and the area will get worse.
"I don't believe standing still is an option here, we need this boost and I urge people who want to see this district move forward to support this application."
Cllr John Whitelegg, of the Green Party, says the plan is flawed' and changes need to be made.
"It will damage existing retailing in Lancaster city centre and it will damage Morecambe. The proposal is for a completely new shopping centre that will be built at a time when our city centre is looking very tired and sad.
"We need a major programme of investment and improvement and not a new one built around an 800 space car park on the other side of the one way system"
WHAT do you think? Is the Centros Miller plan the way forward for Lancaster or are campaigners right to bid to block it? Have your say by adding a comment to this story.
6:07am Wednesday 30th April 2008
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CommentPosted by: Luke, Lancaster on 4:40pm Wed 30 Apr 08
"The proposal is for a completely new shopping centre that will be built at a time when our city centre is looking very tired and sad."
I do not think that we need another big shopping centre.
Well, to tell you the thruth, I think that he is rigth when he says that Lancaster city centre could be a lot better. For example, there is a lack of nice cafes with terasses on those fine squares where we only see dull retail stores. We would also like to see those art galleries in the centre. We would also need a nice bakery.
We should value the city centre instead of buidling trendy places away from the centre.
Talking of being realistic, this new area will not improve the traffic jams. It is about time that this city focuses on efficiently solving its big transportation problem and starts improving its poor bus system.
LHR
"The proposal is for a completely new shopping centre that will be built at a time when our city centre is looking very tired and sad."
I do not think that we need another big shopping centre.
Well, to tell you the thruth, I think that he is rigth when he says that Lancaster city centre could be a lot better. For example, there is a lack of nice cafes with terasses on those fine squares where we only see dull retail stores. We would also like to see those art galleries in the centre. We would also need a nice bakery.
We should value the city centre instead of buidling trendy places away from the centre.
Talking of being realistic, this new area will not improve the traffic jams. It is about time that this city focuses on efficiently solving its big transportation problem and starts improving its poor bus system.
LHR
Posted by: Andrew on 5:36pm Wed 30 Apr 08
I agree with Luke. We must not allow an oversupply of new retail space to undermine the existing shopping centre. We must also minimise new traffic generation.
RAS
I agree with Luke. We must not allow an oversupply of new retail space to undermine the existing shopping centre. We must also minimise new traffic generation.
RAS
Posted by: Greg, Lancaster on 5:57pm Wed 30 Apr 08
Why do Debenhams feature in every Centros development? You would think they were linked?
This article from the Scotsman - this week - shows what happens when Debenhams pulls out of the deal.
Let's regenerate Lancaster the Lancaster way, not by a large generic gropu of multinationals who will march all over our identity.
Quote from "The Scotsman"
He said: "You need a key anchor to make it work and they probably couldn't afford to do it. We know that Debenhams do not come cheap. You don't get a great rent from them and you have to pay a large capital contribution and if you don't open on a specific time there are huge penalties against the landlord.
"In the last few weeks Debenhams have put on hold a number of new schemes.."
http://business.scot
sman.com/industry/Ce
ntros-pulls-plug-on-
50m.4004763.jp
Why do Debenhams feature in every Centros development? You would think they were linked?
This article from the Scotsman - this week - shows what happens when Debenhams pulls out of the deal.
Let's regenerate Lancaster the Lancaster way, not by a large generic gropu of multinationals who will march all over our identity.
Quote from "The Scotsman"
He said: "You need a key anchor to make it work and they probably couldn't afford to do it. We know that Debenhams do not come cheap. You don't get a great rent from them and you have to pay a large capital contribution and if you don't open on a specific time there are huge penalties against the landlord.
"In the last few weeks Debenhams have put on hold a number of new schemes.."
http://business.scot
sman.com/industry/Ce
ntros-pulls-plug-on-
50m.4004763.jp
Posted by: John Walton, Primrose, Lancaster on 8:38pm Wed 30 Apr 08
The Centros proposal would destroy the existing city centre and leach all the character out of Lancaster. Why come here when it looks the same as everywhere else? What we need is investment and improvement in the existing city centre and low-cost housing in the Canal Corridor, within walking distance of the centre. If Centros succeeds, it damages the rest of Lancaster and worsens the traffic problem. If it fails, it fails. The answer is obvious.
The Centros proposal would destroy the existing city centre and leach all the character out of Lancaster. Why come here when it looks the same as everywhere else? What we need is investment and improvement in the existing city centre and low-cost housing in the Canal Corridor, within walking distance of the centre. If Centros succeeds, it damages the rest of Lancaster and worsens the traffic problem. If it fails, it fails. The answer is obvious.
Posted by: Andy, lancaster on 10:08am Thu 1 May 08
So Cllr Blakely thinks Debenhams is an "independent" shop, does he? Presumably he'll also welcome the other "independents" that will fill this new clone-town mall - local, family-run businesses like Starbucks and Virgin.
Yes, this site needs developing. No, this proposal is not the way forwards. The Green Party's alternative is far more senstive to and appropriate for the character of Lancaster and would enable it to develop better as the unique centre it still just about is. And no, I'm not a member of the Green Party, it's just that they've come up with a much better plan!
So Cllr Blakely thinks Debenhams is an "independent" shop, does he? Presumably he'll also welcome the other "independents" that will fill this new clone-town mall - local, family-run businesses like Starbucks and Virgin.
Yes, this site needs developing. No, this proposal is not the way forwards. The Green Party's alternative is far more senstive to and appropriate for the character of Lancaster and would enable it to develop better as the unique centre it still just about is. And no, I'm not a member of the Green Party, it's just that they've come up with a much better plan!
Posted by: Simon, Lancaster on 10:37am Thu 1 May 08
Do we really want an even bigger area of retail that will limp along from year to year because of an adverse trading climate and the fact that a significant proportion of the city's population are students who are generally only around for 30 weeks a year? I don't think so. Better to try and attract a major white collar employer to the site, like a regional banking or insurance centre, which will create better paid full time jobs that have pensions etc. Then we could capitalise on at least a proportion of the thousands of university graduates this area exports back in to the world each year. And if we must have a (struggling) Debenhams stick the blasted place out near Total Fitness - but personally I'd much sooner have a flgship Booths like Kendal, Ulverston and Windermere.
Do we really want an even bigger area of retail that will limp along from year to year because of an adverse trading climate and the fact that a significant proportion of the city's population are students who are generally only around for 30 weeks a year? I don't think so. Better to try and attract a major white collar employer to the site, like a regional banking or insurance centre, which will create better paid full time jobs that have pensions etc. Then we could capitalise on at least a proportion of the thousands of university graduates this area exports back in to the world each year. And if we must have a (struggling) Debenhams stick the blasted place out near Total Fitness - but personally I'd much sooner have a flgship Booths like Kendal, Ulverston and Windermere.
Posted by: sue de Lecea, Lancaster on 11:04am Thu 1 May 08
Whilst being supportive of the need to develop the virtually derelict land in question I believe this will be done at the cost of Lancaster's current city centre which is in dire need of revitalising. There are currently approved plans for new housing in other parts of the city - do we need more ? The current traffic chaos can only become worse if these plans go ahead. It was stated yesterday on Radio that Lancaster has already bankrupted itself in greenhouse gas emissions - where is the sanity in this proposed development ?
Whilst being supportive of the need to develop the virtually derelict land in question I believe this will be done at the cost of Lancaster's current city centre which is in dire need of revitalising. There are currently approved plans for new housing in other parts of the city - do we need more ? The current traffic chaos can only become worse if these plans go ahead. It was stated yesterday on Radio that Lancaster has already bankrupted itself in greenhouse gas emissions - where is the sanity in this proposed development ?
Posted by: Jennifer Lauruol, Carpe Diem Gardens, Ltd, White Cross on 11:54am Thu 1 May 08
The problem with Centros is greed. They are not listening to a truly local voice, but are trying to impose a 'solution' without profound consultation. The 'solution' is dependent upon road transport for the retail goods and the customers. Peak Oil is here, and within a very short time we will need to supply ourselves with goods and food without dependency on petrol economy. This proposed development will miss the opportunity of building for the local future, transition to a low-carbon, non-petroleum dependent local economy. Why won't they use their investment money to help us achieve this? Because they are driven by profit, based wholly on a vision of consumer society. Let them build it: it will be an empty ruin within a generation when the reality of Peak Oil and Climate Change bites.
The problem with Centros is greed. They are not listening to a truly local voice, but are trying to impose a 'solution' without profound consultation. The 'solution' is dependent upon road transport for the retail goods and the customers. Peak Oil is here, and within a very short time we will need to supply ourselves with goods and food without dependency on petrol economy. This proposed development will miss the opportunity of building for the local future, transition to a low-carbon, non-petroleum dependent local economy. Why won't they use their investment money to help us achieve this? Because they are driven by profit, based wholly on a vision of consumer society. Let them build it: it will be an empty ruin within a generation when the reality of Peak Oil and Climate Change bites.
Posted by: wlh, lancaster on 10:21pm Thu 1 May 08
I've only lived in Lancaster for two years but I really appreciate its independant stores -very rare in the south- and small scale buildings.Apart from a few stpidly out of scale mistakes like the recent apartments on the canal. It is a town that one can comfortably walk around where the people are not too stressed to talk to eachother as in bigger towns. Do we want to be the same as everywhere else?
I've only lived in Lancaster for two years but I really appreciate its independant stores -very rare in the south- and small scale buildings.Apart from a few stpidly out of scale mistakes like the recent apartments on the canal. It is a town that one can comfortably walk around where the people are not too stressed to talk to eachother as in bigger towns. Do we want to be the same as everywhere else?
Posted by: Becky, Greaves, Lancaster on 8:08am Fri 2 May 08
When my husband visited this site earlier there was a poll on this page asking people to vote for or against this development. Where has it gone? - has it been removed because it was at the time he voted, showing that around 70% of people are against this development? I moved to Lancaster 8 years ago from Warrington, I stayed because it hasn't been developed like other northern towns. It is how it has kept its appeal - why can the council cannot see that the only winners in this will be the private companies, not the people of Lancaster. There may be more jobs but they won't be the higher paid jobs we need here - just more minimum wage retail assistants. This is yet another example of the city council being out of touch with residents.
When my husband visited this site earlier there was a poll on this page asking people to vote for or against this development. Where has it gone? - has it been removed because it was at the time he voted, showing that around 70% of people are against this development? I moved to Lancaster 8 years ago from Warrington, I stayed because it hasn't been developed like other northern towns. It is how it has kept its appeal - why can the council cannot see that the only winners in this will be the private companies, not the people of Lancaster. There may be more jobs but they won't be the higher paid jobs we need here - just more minimum wage retail assistants. This is yet another example of the city council being out of touch with residents.
Posted by: Rob, East Road on 8:48am Fri 2 May 08
The revised Centros scheme still contains far too much extra retail (because this is where Centros will make huge profits for the duration of the long lease) and insufficient affordable housing and public open space. A bit more retail might be acceptable, and of course people like the idea of the theatres and musicians co-op being improved, but Centros are not doing this for Lancaster, they are only interested in their own profit.
The revised Centros scheme still contains far too much extra retail (because this is where Centros will make huge profits for the duration of the long lease) and insufficient affordable housing and public open space. A bit more retail might be acceptable, and of course people like the idea of the theatres and musicians co-op being improved, but Centros are not doing this for Lancaster, they are only interested in their own profit.
Posted by: Guy Chamberlain, Lancaster on 9:20am Fri 2 May 08
I am all for development, but Centros or the council have done nothing to prove to the public that this development is not going to cause major traffic problem! DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST!
I am all for development, but Centros or the council have done nothing to prove to the public that this development is not going to cause major traffic problem! DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST!
Posted by: Jon, lancaster on 9:34am Fri 2 May 08
Came on the site to vote. Poll gone? When will results be published? How?
Came on the site to vote. Poll gone? When will results be published? How?
Posted by: Tania, Morecambe on 6:43pm Fri 2 May 08
I agree with most of the comments that have already been made about Lancaster not needing another Shoppong Centre but the one we have being updated. Has anyone from Lancaster City Council counted how many empty shops there are in the excisting town centre before building even more. I think an alternative for the canal corridor site would be to rehouse the indoor market in a one storey building as the one they have now is nearly empty because of the high rents and the way the building is set out. Room could then be made on the canal corridor site for the open market which blocks all the main town streets every time it is on. If you are in a rush to do your shopping you cant move for people looking at stalls. It would also be nice if they went more a historical feel than the glass fronted build which has been proposed. When you drive up the motorway all the signs say visit historic Lancaster whats historic about a glass fronted shopping centre and a 800 space multi storey car park.
I agree with most of the comments that have already been made about Lancaster not needing another Shoppong Centre but the one we have being updated. Has anyone from Lancaster City Council counted how many empty shops there are in the excisting town centre before building even more. I think an alternative for the canal corridor site would be to rehouse the indoor market in a one storey building as the one they have now is nearly empty because of the high rents and the way the building is set out. Room could then be made on the canal corridor site for the open market which blocks all the main town streets every time it is on. If you are in a rush to do your shopping you cant move for people looking at stalls. It would also be nice if they went more a historical feel than the glass fronted build which has been proposed. When you drive up the motorway all the signs say visit historic Lancaster whats historic about a glass fronted shopping centre and a 800 space multi storey car park.
Posted by: Christine Howard, Lancaster on 7:56pm Fri 2 May 08
It is about time Lancaster draged it self into the 21st century.Lancaster shops at the moment are a waste of time. We need some large department stores.We go on a regular basis to Norwich we have been going about once a year for 18yrs it was like Lancaster is now 18yrs ago now it is a large booming shoping area.Take your self down their Cllrs see for your self what you could do with Lancaster.
Can i also ask why do Lancashire county council send the news paper voice to people in Cumbria waisting our money on having it delivered by Royal Mail C Howard quote voice
It is about time Lancaster draged it self into the 21st century.Lancaster shops at the moment are a waste of time. We need some large department stores.We go on a regular basis to Norwich we have been going about once a year for 18yrs it was like Lancaster is now 18yrs ago now it is a large booming shoping area.Take your self down their Cllrs see for your self what you could do with Lancaster.
Can i also ask why do Lancashire county council send the news paper voice to people in Cumbria waisting our money on having it delivered by Royal Mail C Howard quote voice
Posted by: Chaz, Lancaster on 5:45pm Thu 8 May 08
I was amused that one of the responses in this week's Citizen stated how much [bold]Lancaster[/bold] needs a big shopping centre as he's fed up travelling to Preston (a whole 15 mins from Lancaster by train) and further afield. He lives in Morecambe but I didn't notice any suggestion that perhaps the new development would be better placed there........
I've lived in 2 towns which have been 'redeveloped' along the lines of the Centros Miller proposal and have watched the new shopping centres expand and envelop the area until small businesses are all but wiped out.
I'm not against redevelopment of the area per se but, please, not in this manner. There have been many sensible alternative suggestions for using the site but, obviously, they won't bring in such big money to the Council. Commercial rents in the area are already high and it's my guess (based on experience) that they'll increase further if this development is allowed to go ahead. Once it's approved, there will be no turning back so let's have a rethink / sensible debate on this before it's too late.
Or do the Council really not care about the opinions of those who pay their wages? Now there's a thought!
I was amused that one of the responses in this week's Citizen stated how much
Lancaster needs a big shopping centre as he's fed up travelling to Preston (a whole 15 mins from Lancaster by train) and further afield. He lives in Morecambe but I didn't notice any suggestion that perhaps the new development would be better placed there........
I've lived in 2 towns which have been 'redeveloped' along the lines of the Centros Miller proposal and have watched the new shopping centres expand and envelop the area until small businesses are all but wiped out.
I'm not against redevelopment of the area per se but, please, not in this manner. There have been many sensible alternative suggestions for using the site but, obviously, they won't bring in such big money to the Council. Commercial rents in the area are already high and it's my guess (based on experience) that they'll increase further if this development is allowed to go ahead. Once it's approved, there will be no turning back so let's have a rethink / sensible debate on this before it's too late.
Or do the Council really not care about the opinions of those who pay their wages? Now there's a thought!
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